$600 Tower - DIY [Archive]

StarYoshi

02-01-2010, 08:02 PM

This is a zone meant for putting together the best bits you can fit into a $600 envelope. Tower only, so KB/Mouse/Monitor is extra... just to show ppl that you can build a lot for your buck :) (Include shipping optional - do not include MIR)

Here's what I configured today offhand (All prices Newegg.com)
CPU - AMD Athlon II X2 240 2.8Ghz - $56.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819103688
RAM - G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB(2x2GB) DDR3-1600 - $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820231277
GFX - Sapphire HD 5750 1GB - (bundle)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814102859
Motherboard - Asus M4A77TD ATX AMD - $79.99 ($10 MIR)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813131603
HDD - 320GB Western Digital Caviar Blue 7200RPM SATA - $49.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822136074
Case - Antec NSK 4482B Mid ATX - $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811129072
PSU - 380w Antec Earthwatts - (With case)
DVD - LG 22x DVD SATA - $24.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16827136168
OS - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit - (bundle)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16832116754

Subtotal is $596.92 with shipping is $606.91 or so. Pretty good bang for the buck... the real power lies in the $800-$1000 range where what you can build is INSANE - DDR2/3 memory has gone WAY up in price lately. Those unfamiliar with building can really just buy a prebuilt and pop a GPU in there that has minimal power requirements :P (HD4670 anyone? :D)

AMD is the best bang for the buck right now both in CPUs and GPUs in the lower-mid range. Anything above that is i5/i7 or the highway :D

Zero Hour

02-02-2010, 06:38 AM

Not bad, not bad at all. I'd probably OC that processor since TF2/L4D2 is more cpu bound.

I would also probably change the case.
Antec Three Hundred w/430w psu. That other one isn't very pretty. Price is the same :)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129065

StarYoshi

02-02-2010, 09:02 AM

I love the three hundred, but the PSU they bundle with it is a sucky Basiq one :P I do like the NSK too :D Earthwatts 380w is w00t.

Freaky_Angelus

02-02-2010, 10:04 AM

mullet

02-02-2010, 10:18 AM

nvm

$uCkY-p|aYeR

02-02-2010, 12:34 PM

I can do under 1000.00... I like to try to get fastest cpu, memory and HD and cut corners other places but thats part of putting together a rig is deciding which corner you want to cut. The thing that is questionable is PSU but you could swap out this case for one of the other mention and still be under 900. This rig give you 3.4ghz for CPU and 10000RPM on hard drive that makes a difference.

$79.99 BIOSTAR TA790GXB3 AM3 AMD 790GX ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138163)
$189.00 AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727)
$115.98 2x Kingston HyperX 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104151)
$24.99 LG Black DVD burner sata (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136177)
$154.99 SAPPHIRE 100279-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102849)
$159.99 VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 16MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296)
$39.99 BLACK Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Okia ATX 550W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162042)
$0.00 OKIA-BLACK-550 550W ATX Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817162018&cm_re=Okia_ATX_550W-_-17-162-018-_-Product)
$139.99 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 32-bit 1-Pack for System Builders (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116756)

Total = 904.92

of course this is a budget machine so obviously not optimal but should be pretty darn fast for the buck.

stewlounse

02-02-2010, 03:20 PM

[/url]
[url="http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=n82e16822136296"]$69.99 velociraptor wd1500hlfs 150gb 10000 rpm 16mb cache sata 3.0gb/s 16mb (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=n82e16814102849)

$69.99?

$uCkY-p|aYeR

02-02-2010, 03:25 PM

oops lol sorry.. missed that..I got busy at work.. and just typed it up fast..

StarYoshi

02-02-2010, 06:15 PM

Who cares what kind of PSU comes with it :P

You replace that any way but I would use something more powerfull then 380W..

The 5750 already can draw close to 200W (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446-15.html) so I would increase the PSU a bit, for the rest.. Nice combo of it all :D

This is a HUGE misconception.

HUUUUUUUUUUGE

A 380w psu can run ANY system short of a multi-card or multi-gpu single card setup.

On my mini ITX rig I used a 300w PSU to power a core i7 860, 4gb ddr3, 60gb ssd, 500gb hdd, HD 5770, and all the accessories. Quality is more important than quantity. I used a 500w OCZ ModXStream to power a 3.7Ghz Phenom II X2 550 (UNLOCKED to QUAD CORE) and XFIRE HD 4850 without issue. Max load was around 380w. A 380w Earthwatts kicks any 500w shit PSUs butt. Modular, 80-plus, and warranty trump watts.

This rig I've built idles at 100w and hits 250w playing games. That's an i7 860, 3HDD, hd 5850, etc.

Also if you're looking for performance over value (aka 1k range) go for intel EVERY time. The high end phenoms are not worth it. Core i5 750 or Core i7 860 should be the foundation of a 1k system.

Also this is a $600 thread! Not $1k. The point is to try to match the value of my suggested rig so the young boys like Djinn can find bits on the cheap! :D

Freaky_Angelus

02-02-2010, 07:18 PM

Well I like the fact that your sys measures under 380W.. However on general I tend to keep this (http://archive.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354) thread in mind when configuring the PSU..

The specs I found on the 5xxx series of ATI are impressive on lacking high consumptions, but considering how a PSU works, I would never bet it with a smaller one if I know 1 part can consume up to 50%. The fact that the total is only 380W doesnt mean the PSU can actually deliver all the required energy to 1 massive vid-card (ok.. not a 5750, but you understand what I mean). You want a PSU that can handle high loads on the GPU and CPU level.. Those are strong, then ok, but I think we now get to the level of reading the tech. spec. of a PSU and how many output levels it has.

Anywho.. As we get screwed on prices here in EU... This is a mighty decent find :P

€60,- E6300 2.8Ghz s775
€40,- Asrock 4Core1600-GLAN/M
€28,- Cooler Master 333 Black Case
€40,- Cooler Master Elite Power 460W
€30,- Kingston HyperX KHX6400D2LLK2/2GN
€35,- WD Caviar 320Gb WD3200AAJS
€20,- LG GH22NP20
€55,- XFX HD 4670 1Gb GDDR2

Total of €308,- or $462

No links... site is called tweakers.net but is in Dutch so useless for you guyz ;) I bet however you can get these parts way cheaper (as I've been annoyingly noticing..) and for a budget pc this is a fine pc.. for those that want to spend more the easy upgrades within a budget here are the GPU and the amount of mem.. Or spend it on a nice screen, keyboard renewal.. mouse with a gazilion dpi... you know.. the other parts ;)

StarYoshi

02-02-2010, 07:58 PM

I'm idling at 96w with my core i7 860, Radeon HD 5850 4gb ddr3, 1 SSD, 2 HDD, 4 LED fans, ATX mobo... tee hee. Also I included 4GB ram and an OS in mine :D Two more red led fans and a scythe slim on the way. Btw I'm using a corsair 850HX 80-plus silver modular PSU. Never skimp on a quality PSU. Just don't get more than you need :D (I used to run 4.0Ghz Core i7 920 and SLI GTX 285 on this baby, MAX gaming load was only around 350w and I would have been surprised to see it ever pass 500w max CPU/GPU load :D)

Freaky_Angelus

02-03-2010, 07:03 AM

StarYoshi

02-03-2010, 08:17 AM

Hehe wow..

I didn't add 4Gb nor an OS.. For a budget pc 4gb is not needed and OS.. Depending on what you can get and where... I know some USA prices and they are insanely lowe compared to ours. Add the difference on student licences / home licences and I'm not gonna ruin a nice cheap build with 100+ euros on W7 ;) (yes... sometimes they screw us hard here in EU)

Aka CHEATER! You have about 430 Euros to work with, which ain't much! I used the "OEM" license which is $100USD here. Psh 4GB is always needed :D Dun be jealous cause we gots teh pricez. But yeah, good effort anyway. Here's an Angelus Cookie for ya!

I'm contemplating buying a Pentium E3200 and seeing how far I can OC it with a Hyper 212 plus... or I could use the extra Dark Knight I've got :P

Freaky_Angelus

02-03-2010, 10:50 AM

well... here is why I excluded it:
- Windows 7 Utlimate 64bit OEM is 150 euros....
- Windows 7 Home Premium (well whatever.. the cheapest) is 83,-

Both are MORE then your 100USD with the currency of 1.4 at this moment (btw.. 308 euros with 1.4 makes 430)..

Also.. fine... add a second 2Gb to it :P those addiotional 30,- are not the problem ;)

The ridiculous part is that you guyz got our absolute prices in a $ currency.. Some difference are fine, but when building a pc over 1000,- USD it is even cheaper to order it in like 3 orders from USA with 3x shipping (under 500USD no tax import for my country) then order it here and pick it up at a shop.

Anywho..

E3200:
4x 200Mhz ~ 800Mhz fsb..
So that would be a 6x multi..

It has a large room of voltage OC.. up to 1.4 V (or something like that..)

Going from 200 up.. I would say that 300 should not be a problem on a 65W design.. Maybe down the multi to 5x and push it further..

4x 400Mhz at 5x Multi.. 4Ghz dual core max.. Give or take 5%.. And.. it will burn out if you Prime95 it for longer then an hour ;) BUT.. you should get it booted at that!

Next on predictions!

stewlounse

02-03-2010, 11:09 AM

This is a HUGE misconception.

HUUUUUUUUUUGE

A 380w psu can run ANY system short of a multi-card or multi-gpu single card setup.

On my mini ITX rig I used a 300w PSU to power a core i7 860, 4gb ddr3, 60gb ssd, 500gb hdd, HD 5770, and all the accessories. Quality is more important than quantity. I used a 500w OCZ ModXStream to power a 3.7Ghz Phenom II X2 550 (UNLOCKED to QUAD CORE) and XFIRE HD 4850 without issue. Max load was around 380w. A 380w Earthwatts kicks any 500w shit PSUs butt. Modular, 80-plus, and warranty trump watts.

This rig I've built idles at 100w and hits 250w playing games. That's an i7 860, 3HDD, hd 5850, etc.

Also if you're looking for performance over value (aka 1k range) go for intel EVERY time. The high end phenoms are not worth it. Core i5 750 or Core i7 860 should be the foundation of a 1k system.

Also this is a $600 thread! Not $1k. The point is to try to match the value of my suggested rig so the young boys like Djinn can find bits on the cheap! :D

Everyone should know that the wattage you see on a power supply is it's maximum output. You don't want to run a system close to it's maximum output so it's always good to buy a bigger PSU than you need for that extra reliability cushion. Running a PSU near it's max output (rated output) will result in a short life and could lead to bad problems.

It's not all about buying watts though. It's about buying a stable and efficient unit too. *Stay away from cheap PSUs*

Like for the HX850 rails:
(HX is by far my most favorite and most efficient series, I have the HX750)

Volts*Amps=Watts (Power)

+3.3V x 25A = 82.5W
+5V x 25A= 125
+12V x 70A = 840W
-12V x 0.8A = 9.6W
+5V x 3A = 15W

The 12V rail is the most important because it powers everything like your mobo, drives, CPU, some fans, and video card. So make sure the 12V rail provides enough power to cover your main components.

Also, for the best PSU tests you will find:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/index.php

To see how awesome the HX PSUs are, check out the HX850 test (9.6/10): http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=153

StarYoshi

02-03-2010, 07:04 PM

The point is that most systems don't use HALF of the power supply's juice for anything 500w and up. Also, the "recommended power supply" specs on gfx cards are not useful. Of course you don't want to run it at 100%, it's most efficient between 20 and 80% load. Depends on what you're running. A $600 build (aka one using a dual or quad core and a single GPU requiring one or fewer 6-pin PCIE connections will manage just fine with a QUALITY 3-400w power supply. Corsair is my favorite Power Supply brand. (there are tons of w00t 80-plus PSUs out there now btw, modular is ftw too) Many of them are re-branded Seasonic power supplies, but the HX series is infused with their own tech. Love my 850HX. BTW I have a HX620w that I'm looking to sell. Haven't used it for like 6 months...

Zero Hour

02-04-2010, 06:41 AM

Actually - modular is worse. You don't get as good (<- could do some hardcore engineering talk but we'll leave it out) of power through the rails than a non-modular power supply. I have a PC Power & Cooling 610W and I totally agree with yoshi that 90% of us never come within 80% of the psu maximum rating which is generally where your psu's efficiency is (the plus-80 rating for example), but you always want to leave that room in case you decide to get that dual-SLIx2core setup which would draw around 500W (aka, close to my sweet spot!)

So really, it's all what you want to do with it.

Yoshi, if your corsair dies, you should check out PC Power & Cooling. I've had several corsair psus but the PCP&C is bar none the best PSU I've used.

StarYoshi

02-04-2010, 08:22 AM

Corsair is my baby ;) I used a ModXStream 500w that ran Xfire 5850 and an unlocked Phenom II X2 550 (Quad core at 3.7Ghz) and other junk a-ok :D (Used 350ish watts at load)

stewlounse

02-04-2010, 10:29 AM

The only issue, and a very small issue, about modular is that they are less efficient because plugging in the cables makes another connection. Another connection means more resistance which means less voltage for you at the end. Good ole Ohm's Law tells us that. But it's not as bad as one may think...

Or there's even the argument that repetitively removing and plugging in the cables will wear down the connectors. I really don't see that as an issue, considering the only time I touch my PSU is when I build the system. You really need a bad connection to notice any significant voltage drops.

On the good hand you've got less cables, less clutter = more room for airflow for the rest of your components.

If you see the review that I posted about the HX modular corsairs, they have no problem whatsoever with efficiency. While modular, they are some of the most stable and efficient PSUs out there. So I'm throwing that "modular is less efficient" crap out the door when looking at the quality units. These corsairs are teh secks.

Bottom line is there's no real reason to not buy a modular PSU. It might save you less than 1% efficiency. But like I said earlier stay away from the cheapies.

From Johnny Guru's FAQ on power supplies:

"Resistance: Modular connectors, adapters and splitters.
...There's been a lot of scare tactics used to convince people to not go with a modular power supply. But the reality is, even at high loads the resistance is quite minimal if the correct measures are taken."

Link: The "power supply FAQ" - jonnyGURU Forums

BTW bring the engineering talk lol! I'm a mechanical engineer myself.

Snix

02-04-2010, 02:22 PM

ohh you guys need girlfriends to take up some of your time. that is all i have to say for now.

$uCkY-p|aYeR

02-04-2010, 02:40 PM

Not me... LOL I get paid by the hour to do this lol... Its the only time I am on the forums lol..

stewlounse

02-04-2010, 04:29 PM

lol snix. what's funny is i make these posts at work...so a gf wouldn't help me there :P

Freaky_Angelus

02-04-2010, 04:34 PM

or would she?

stewlounse

02-04-2010, 04:58 PM

To help take up some of my time....lol....depends.

Guys gotta get that PC talk in, ya know?

Zero Hour

02-04-2010, 06:25 PM

Don't think my gf would like all this computer talk, so we're doing her a favour!!

Stew you are correct, you increase the resistance which creates a voltage drop. The voltage drop can be as much as would occur in 2 feet of standard wire. They also use pins which could break and come apart, I've had it happen. Also, storing the extra cables you're not using is a huge pain in the ass, if you're even slightly creative/OCD you can hide a non-modular psus wires pretty easily.

More on PSU's "A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. " Then again that's from PC Power&Cooling so they've brain washed me pretty good by this point!

StarYoshi

02-04-2010, 07:55 PM

ohh you guys need girlfriends to take up some of your time. that is all i have to say for now.

*Ehem* I've got one now.

Freaky_Angelus

02-05-2010, 05:45 AM

More on PSU's "A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. " Then again that's from PC Power&Cooling so they've brain washed me pretty good by this point!

Yessshhhh... and still.. Nooooooooooooooo...

By comparing two completely different results and relative percentages these two numbers mean nothing..

DOH! Ofcourse a single 12V rail can supply 100% of the required energy..

So can 15 rails supply that 100% required energy.

The 1 rail will however have 1x X% loss on distribution resistance while the DOH 15x...

However, if there is only 1 rail in the PSU, the amount of cables are an influence and yes, more cables/more connections when modulair is then bad, but if you have a proper PSU, designed for more then 1x 12V rail, it will have several rails delivering the 12V requirements..

In basics it comes to what type of mosfets, trafo's and diodes are used.. The heavier you load a mosfet to its peak (as in amperage) the less efficient it will become. The mentioned 80% max part.. Sadly, 80% is from where the drop will happen, but the optimal point for a mosfet is way lower as more electrons passing through mean higher thermal energy that needs to be dissipated. A mosfet needs to remain cool and that happens when you don't take energy from the rail.

In other words, yes you want a PSU that is not overkill, but you deff dont want a PSU that get's above that 60~80% level. The sad part is that it are often the trafo, resistors and sometimes even the diodes that give way before the mosfet due to overdrawing power. The mosfets will give away with age and that is mainly the part we are talking on now.

In case of Yoshi putting a 380W consumption on a 450W PSU (or something like that?).. Not a year bro.. that 1 mosfet for the 12V rail would jump out and choke you if it could!

Back to non tech ranting..

MASS EFFECT 2 is awesome! I can play drunk in a bar, while being drunk from the bar!

StarYoshi

02-05-2010, 08:41 AM

Who said anything about putting a 380w consumption on 450w? You wouldn't have the # of 6-pin connections necessary generally, because only a multi-GPU setup uses that much juice. Or possibly a fatty 5970 or something. You can run 20-80% load all day into perpetuity.

Freaky_Angelus

02-05-2010, 02:22 PM

You can run 20-80% load all day into perpetuity.

No you can't :P by now I've replaced my servers PSU's 5x that proof you are wrong :P

It has to do with the life expectency of the parts inside.. None will last forever and depending on the load it are either the mosfets, the trafo converting voltages or even the diodes.. those however are commonly the last to go on wear.

You run them higher on load and they will die sooner, simple as that.. Agreed we are talking on 5 to 10 years minimum, but perpetuity no sir.

Snix

02-05-2010, 07:12 PM

I kinda rather hear pc talk then most convos tbh but thats me

StarYoshi

02-05-2010, 07:33 PM

Freaky you've got smelly European parts! They don't work as well as mine :P My corsair hx620w will run forever.

Freaky_Angelus

02-06-2010, 08:16 AM

That sir, is a bet waiting to be made!

Bet accepted! If it never breaks I owe you a big pint otherwise you owe me one ;)

See this as a good thing.. It breaks and you get a free drinking lesson :D

stewlounse

02-06-2010, 09:22 AM

Lol...perpetuity doesn't exist when it comes to electrical components. If something has power pumping through it, it's only a matter of time before it can't do anymore work, unless you keep doing surgery on it.

It's just that some of the higher quality stuff can last what seems forever. Eventually it will ALL die!

I've heard of people running hard drives for 20-30+ years lolol, but a PSU...never.