Researching new computer

[Devant]

Okay, So after talking to friends and all you guys, almost endlessly about my computer woes, i've decided that my best course of action is to basically scrap this old POS and build myself a brand new rig of awesomeness.

I'm not going to go with the laptop idea that was previously posted because after playing BFBC2, I want to play in high settings!!!

Okay, so i'm looking to spend 700-1000$. Preferably in the middle somewhere, things don't have to be completely top line because i've been playing on 5 year old hardware so I won't notice the difference between the card that was released yesterday vs the card released last year. The thing is, I don't know much about hardware like you all have heard me complain about, so I could use any help from all of you bored nerds out there who like to build rigs.

[Devant]

was looking through my CPU magazine and this one caught my attention. Tell me about it please

http://www.revolutionpc.net/store/Revolution-s-Newest-Edition-The-Oblivion-x58-Custom-Built-Computer-500gb-HDD-6gb-Tri-Ram-Quad-Core-i7-1gb-Video.html

[Freaky_Angelus]

Pro's:
i7
price

Con's:
Mobo has 3x DIMM??
HD 4870.... even a 5770 is better... so no
500W PSU.. pretty low imo
HDD is nothing special nor fast.



We can tell you what to buy, but in that case you must built it.. No prob.. then ok:

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375&cm_re=x58_motherboard-_-13-128-375-_-Product) or ASUS P6T SE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131386&cm_re=x58_motherboard-_-13-131-386-_-Product)
CPU: i7 930 2.8Ghz quad (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225&cm_re=i7_cpu-_-19-115-225-_-Product)
GPU: Sapphire Vapor-X HD 5770 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102868&cm_re=5770-_-14-102-868-_-Product) or Sapphire HD 5850 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884&cm_re=5850-_-14-102-884-_-Product)
MEM: Need to check QVL first, but for an indication OCZ Platinum 2x2Gb DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227478&cm_re=DDR3_1333-_-20-227-478-_-Product)
PSU+CASE: Cooler Master RC-P100-RKR1 + 550W Extreme Plus (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119217&cm_re=Cooler_master-_-11-119-217-_-Product)

This makes on prices:
Cheap version with Gigabyte and HD 5770
$ 839,-
More expensive version with Asus and HD 5850
$ 959,-

Depending if you want to buy a new DVD ROM and/or mice/keyboard etc these are within your budget..

[Pineapple!]

Could also swap in the i5 750 to save another $100 if you want. 4 cores easily OC'd, just doesn't have hyperthreading .

[[+Duracell-]]

After looking at the PC in the link...lol. I wouldn't build a PC with a Foxconn motherboard. Eww.

CPU

There are two camps with CPUs: Intel and AMD. The only real difference is price and performance. Higher-end is typically Intel's realm, whereas AMD usually has the low-end and mainstream parts locked down.

If you want to stick with Intel, then an i5 or a lower-end i7 Lynnfield setup would be best for your budget. You'll get 90-95% of the higher end 9xx series performace, but at a much more reasonable price. There are a few tradeoffs, but we're talking a mere 5-10fps loss MAX in games. It's only worth getting a 9xx series i7 if you're doing hardcore video editing or you have a Crossfire/SLI setup with your video cards.

If you don't want top-of-the-line, you can always go with an AMD setup. Phenom II X4 955 + 4GB of DDR3-1600 ram + a decent Gigabyte mobo should run you about $350-400 altogether, whereas the i7 930 is $280 alone. It'll perform at 80-90% of the level the i7 will, but it's also much cheaper.

Motherboard

There are two different form factors: micro ATX and just plain ATX. Either will fit in a mid-tower or full size case. Pick one that supports your CPU of choice and the features you might want. Most boards $150 and up are usually catered to the overclocking crowd on a budget. Decent budget boards from Gigabyte (the brand I use and recommend) start around $70-$80.

Memory

Pick a kit that fits your motherboard (tri-channel if it's an X58 motherboard, dual channel otherwise). DDR3-1600 if it's cheap, otherwise the step down (DDR3-1333).

Case

I have the Coolermaster HAF 922 and I looooooooove it. Cases are personal choices, anyways. Some may have features such as nice cable routing, lots of fans, front ports, whatever. I picked the HAF 922 because of the routing features, plenty of ventilation, and it's much quieter than I thought. Just pick one that looks good to you and fits your price range.

Power supply

Never skimp on a power supply. Ever. Trust me. Buying a terrible power supply is like buying food at McDonalds: it may taste good and fit your budget, but man it'll wreck your body like no tomorrow. Clean power is important because all those little variations in current can reduce your component's lifespan. And a more efficient power supply, like ones with 80+ Gold certification, will put less of an impact on your power bill.

If you're looking for a list of good brands or not, this thread is a good read (http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx). Just pick one that fits your power needs. If you're getting an i7 with an X58 motherboard and a HD 5850, then a 600-700W PSU is a safe bet.

Video card
The HD 4870 is actually a bit better performance-wise than the HD 5770, mainly because the 5770's memory bus is weaker. So it goes HD 5850 > HD 5770 ~ HD 4870. Right now, the HD 5850 is faster than any previous generation card, but it also runs ~$300. Depends on what you want, really. If it were me purchasing new parts, HD 5850 for sure, but you might be satisfied with an HD 4870 or even an nVidia GTX 275 if you can find one for cheaper than $200.

Sample parts list
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition - $160 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808)
CPU Heatsink: Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro - $28 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125)
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-770TA-UD3 AM3 - $95 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128419)
Memory: G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3-1333 RAM - $105 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231190)
Video Card: Sapphire HD 5850 - $300 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884)

Just these 5 brings you to about $690. Look to spend around $100-150 for a good power supply and that'll bring you to the $800 range. And this is buying new. If you surf around on tech forums like the [H]ard|OCP forums (http://www.hardforums.com), you'll find plenty of hardware for sale cheaper than new and in pretty good shape.

Case is up to you. I've had both an Antec P180 (the latest revision is the P183, which is basically the same) and the Coolermaster HAF 922. Both are great cases, each with their caveats, but I loved them both. You can find the P183 for $180 + shipping (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061) and the HAF 922 for $110 + shipping (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197).

Then carry over your DVD drive and other stuff (keyboard/mouse/speakers) if you can/want.

[Clone]

I don't know much about hardwear...so I could use any help from all of you bored nerds

i see that lol.


----anywhosile



this is what i ing with Grad money(pendent on getting job too tho) which comes to: $780.90

MSI 770-C45 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard: $79.99

SAPPHIRE 100283L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5: 189.99

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro 600 Watt PSU: $89.99

AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor: $167.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600: $105.99

Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVDS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive: $89.99 (But you could just put your old in the new)

COOLER MASTER RR-H101-22FK-RA 80mm Long life sleeve bearing CPU Cooler (Just an extra from the stock heatsink) $14.99

XIGMATEK XLF-F1253 120mm 4 white LED LED Case Fan - Retail (2X--Extra fans can always be nice): $8.99--2X $17.99


----W/O Extra heatsink and fans $747.92


I too have the Haf 922 and yes it is awesome, i have yet to buy all of ^ due to having no money :(
---I bought case because it was on sale for 89.98 from 119.98 (The $30 of saving was worth it to buy early) [but it is back down to 89.98]

[Devant]

How is the i5 here? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

[Cosmic_Shame]

How is the i5 here? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

i5 is just as nice as the i7

[Freaky_Angelus]

Finally found a benchmark with the GTX 480...

I can only say auch.. For most of you this single one (considering the amount of BBC2 lovers here) says enough. Do remember that these are all single setups and no OC on the cards!

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/4961/benchmarkd.jpg

-edit-
and it was relevant as this is done on an OC'd i7 920 (to 3.8Ghz) with 3x 2Gb DDR3 1600 and an X58 board..

[nAtr0n]

Andtech.com

Final Words

To wrap things up, let’s start with the obvious: NVIDIA has reclaimed their crown – they have the fastest single-GPU card. The GTX 480 is between 10 and 15% faster than the Radeon 5870 depending on the resolution, giving it a comfortable lead over AMD’s best single-GPU card.


You ATI fan boys leave out the real data that matters.... the gtx has a much more stable lower end frame rate and much higher overall performace. Who cares what you fps spikes hit

Apples with apples the 5970 is not a comparison at this moment as it is dual gpu card

Don't get me wrong the ATI cards rock but this new nvidia card is being way undersold

[[+Duracell-]]

It's also $500 for a single card. Not worth the money IMO.

[Freaky_Angelus]

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1770/benchmark2l.jpg

Nvidia is failing huge considering the extra time they needed, the amount of heat it produces and the statement about stable fps is rubbish considering the fact I just posted a nice shot of BBC2 running on specific settings that posts the MINIMUM and average fps.. Nothing with spikes.. averages and minima...

For as the 5970, for results go through this german sites review (http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2010/test_nvidia_geforce_gtx_480/), the outcome is simple.. The GTX 480 is indeed the overall fastest single GPU right now, but for a small $100 more you have the 5970 which is way better performance/cost wise. Current prices put the 5870 at 100 below and 5970 100 above the GTX 480 while the GTX 480 is barely faster when you turn up AA and AF. And come on, you don't buy such a card to play without AA and AF...

I.A. I'm just curious if Nvidia will manage to get two of those hot fermi's working on 1 card before ATI comes out with the 6xxx series... Yes, with the current progress that should be within a half year from now and if Nvidia doesn't manage to produce their GTX 495 by then.. big problem.

All with all I must say, the auch is less painfull then I expected considering the original 'benchmark' they showed on youtube.

[Clone]

Andtech.com

Final Words

To wrap things up, let?s start with the obvious: NVIDIA has reclaimed their crown ? they have the fastest single-GPU card. The GTX 480 is between 10 and 15% faster than the Radeon 5870 depending on the resolution, giving it a comfortable lead over AMD?s best single-GPU card.


i disagree, nvidia still hasn't put HDMI on their boards which is much to be desired, espc. if you are going to use your pc as your main entertainment system which is becoming really common these days.


----also if they did this and could set up something much like ATI's eyefinity, they would sell more probably.

[Zero Hour]

*all newegg prices*

CPU - Intel Core i5-750 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215&cm_re=i5_750-_-19-115-215-_-Product) - $200
Mobo - GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128404t) - $140
Memory - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276) - $110
GPU - SAPPHIRE 100282-3SR Radeon HD 5850 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884&cm_re=5850-_-14-102-884-_-Product) - $280
PSU - OCZ Z-Series OCZZ550 550W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341037) - $90
Case - Your on your own :)
HDD - Your on your own

=================
Total = $820 + case + hdd + etc + tax.

Rebuttal...
i5 750, is a great gaming cpu. I wouldn't necessarily jump into the 920 (although an excellent cpu) simply because they stack up real close and the 750 is $80 cheaper. You also save money by not going the i7 route on mobo/ram. So, I'm with Pineapple in this CPU choice.

I'd probably say go with the 5850, or if you want to save money 5770. But for only $100 more, you really get amazing performance for the price.

You could save ~$30 by going with a cheaper PSU in the 500-600W range (though you won't be near this on load), but that PSU is a Silver PLUS 80 award so it's hella awesome.

The Case/HDD is your preference, so I'm not even going to try to recommend them. Just stay away from SDDs at the moment, they haven't matured quiet yet.

[Zero Hour]

i disagree, nvidia still hasn't put HDMI on their boards which is much to be desired, espc. if you are going to use your pc as your main entertainment system which is becoming really common these days.They have a DVI=>HDMI adaptor that comes with all of their videocards. Now, it doesn't pass sound so I do agree ATI's system is better, BUT natron is talking about the performance, which from Anand's article is pretty conclusive.

[Clone]

They have a DVI=>HDMI adaptor that comes with all of their videocards. Now, it doesn't pass sound so I do agree ATI's system is better, BUT natron is talking about the performance, which from Anand's article is pretty conclusive.

yes just on performance Nvida has the better for the price range of the $250-300, but the DVI-->HDMI is somewhat pointless because you're still only going to get the same quality of picture as a DVI--which i can't comment on because I haven't seen it use, but i do know HDMI is newer which usually means better. *usually*

And Eyefinity kicks 3D ass anyday.

[[+Duracell-]]

Going to add on to what I said earlier.

Performance-wise, yes, the GTX 480 is the best.

It doesn't blow anything away. however. 10% more performance @ 2560x1200 isn't much when you're talking 3-4 more fps at the same settings. And at $500, you're looking at competing with the HD 5970, which blows the GTX 480 away.

Let's look at this page (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3783&p=19) for power and temp comparisons. In Anandtech's review, they find that the GTX 480, compared to the HD 5970, uses more power (378W for the HD5970 vs 421W for the GTX 480) and runs much hotter (81C for the HD5970 vs 94C (!!) for the GTX 480). Let's not even talk about an SLI config.

Then throw in Eyefinity, which is pretty cool if you can afford it, and the fact that all ATI cards in the 4000 and 5000 series support HDMI+audio passthrough. To me, Fermi is not exciting. I don't want to pay $500 for a power-guzzling, heat monster that barely performs better than the HD 5870.

[Zero Hour]

but the DVI-->HDMI is somewhat pointless because you're still only going to get the same quality of picture as a DVI--which i can't comment on because I haven't seen it use, but i do know HDMI is newer which usually means better. *usually*They're actually the same thing, just a port connector. HDMI has the extra lanes in that it can carry audio signal which DVI doesn't have, but otherwise the video signal is identical. I used it on my 42" TV for a year till I got my 5850. It's not like DVI->VGA, which is a digital-to-analog conversion.

performance Nvida has the better for the price range of the $250-300I have no idea where you're getting that from because it's simply not true. Isn't the 5850 in the $250-$300 range and it's faster than the 470, which is a $350+ card??? You really need to read more reviews/get some pricing ranges before posting because it's really misinformed.

[Freaky_Angelus]

I think we need to dehijack the thread and go back to the config of Devant's PC to be ;)

I would go i7 over i5 considering the hyperthreading will be valueable in the end.. I'm already so happy with my quad while everybody said 'you don't need that unless you go render stuff..' well, ok, but damn it gives headroom.

Apart from that, some nice suggestions and directions are made. Devant, any comments?

[Zero Hour]

I would go i7 over i5 considering the hyperthreading will be valueable in the end..I'm not so convinced, http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=47&p2=109&c=1 and the i7 920 (cpu alone) is 40% more expensive. I don't see 40% performance here :).

[Freaky_Angelus]

I'm not so convinced, http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=47&p2=109&c=1 and the i7 920 (cpu alone) is 40% more expensive. I don't see 40% performance here :).

Ok... WTF is going on there? How is a 4 thread cpu quicker then an 8 thread cpu (of almost equal age)? Same Ghz and the i7 should be better then the i5 (or is Intel using Nvidia's rebrand shit and working with weird names?) or at least.. I assumed higher iX means more POWERRR!!!!

Let me rephrase that..

BUY THE i5!!! FRAK MY STUPIDITY!

now heading for the gym as apparently I can't hide behind having some brains anymore :S

[[+Duracell-]]

It depends on the application, freaky. Some programs, while multi-thread and core aware, might not scale well past 4 cores. So while going from 2 to 4 cores in the program will show an impressive performance boost, 4 to 6 or 4 to 8 might not.

And you have to realize that Hyperthreading enables the CPU to run 2 threads simutaneously on one core. That is, two threads share the resources in one core. So the i7 won't really destroy the i5 in multi-threaded application. It'll do better for sure, but not 40% better.

i7 is high-end/enthusiast
i5 is mainstream
i3 is low-end

Theoretically, the i5 is a cut-down version of the i7. It's an updated Nehalam core (Westmere) without Hyperthreading.

[Freaky_Angelus]

No I know all that, but especially in the 3D rendering department should the additional threads provide profit as it can use its resources better..

However.. I don't see 40% gain.. I barely see gain at all if not loss??

So.. again.. wtf!

[Pineapple!]

I like Zero Hour's build the best if your willing to use and old case or spend the extra 150 over the AMD machine. His build is similar to the one I am looking at for this summer when I get back from Europe. However both would be a great new rig and play any games out there just fine.

Also as nice as HDMI's ability to push sound through the vid card the software/hardware is usually balls so you wanna have sound from a sound card if possible to gain the EAX effects and whatnot.

As far as the 480 and 5870/5970 they are all overpriced POS's. Get a 470 or 5850 for 350ish and it will be more then enough. Then spend the 200 you saved 2 years down the road on the next middle line GPU and you will have far more longevity then blowing your load on a 480 or 5970. Please note that hes looking to build a mainstream comp not an enthusiast. If your rich by all means 480 it up.

[Freaky_Angelus]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227226&cm_re=i5_750-_-83-227-226-_-Product

So in essence we are building the above with a better GPU ;)

[Zero Hour]

Ok... WTF is going on there? How is a 4 thread cpu quicker then an 8 thread cpu (of almost equal age)? Same Ghz and the i7 should be better then the i5 (or is Intel using Nvidia's rebrand shit and working with weird names?) or at least.. I assumed higher iX means more POWERRR!!! :o) well not much is written for 8 threads, let alone 4. The BIG thing and what blows me away by the i7 is the x264 encoding. This is a full mutlithreaded application. 27 vs 21 fps is a licking in my opinion for 920 vs 750. Check out the 980X x264 2nd pass, thing is a MONSTER! 48 fps!!!

The i5 750 is also a different processor class, Lynnfield. It supports what's called turbo memory which is good for around 17% more performance. You should read this page http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/5 and you'll have your answer why the i5 750 owns so much face!